Learn the easy, automated way to increase the amount of cases you're closing without spending more on lead generation by reading this transcribed webinar between Elliot Alicea, co-founder of Empirical360, and Chris Lyle, creator of LawHustle.
Note: This blog is a close transcription of a webinar originally posted to our lawyer success Facebook group at the beginning of a conversation between Elliot Alicea, co-founder of Empirical360 and Marketing Bros , and Chris from LawHustle, a law firm growth system. You can view the recorded webinar here and the full software demo here.
Elliot: What we’re going to be talking about today is something I’ve talked about many, many times. You know what we do - we generate leads for attorneys - but lead generation is only half the battle. Once the lead gets to you, there’s a process that has to be followed. I’ve talked about follow-up and how important it is to stay on the ball with the leads, answer phone calls, and etc. Chris is pretty much a master at that. He’s also an attorney himself, so he understands how busy things can get, which is why he has created this system, LawHustle, that facilitates a lot of automated follow-up.
So, Chris, if you want to just give a quick background on who you are and how you got this started, and then I’ll ask a few questions and then go from there into a live demo of his platform.
Chris: Great! Well, first, I appreciate you having me on live and in your group. My name is Chris, I’m an attorney. Being an attorney was like a second career of mine after working in the medical IT space, but anyways - getting into this - I practice and specialize in patent law. I work with software and hardware engineers all day long. I ended up starting a law firm at some point with a partner, kind of as a side project to see where it would go. Just like anybody else, you get into this whole project and you’re thinking like “Okay, how do we get clients?” And then when you start getting more clients, you’re like “Okay, how do we have time to follow up with these clients” and it became this big ordeal.
So I took all my technological knowledge and all the nerd/techy stuff I have in my head all the time, and applied it to this because I wanted to optimize and I wanted to make it easy. Because at the end of the day, time is money for attorneys. Spending time being able to focus on complaints, or briefs, or whatever it is - that’s where the money is, by making cases better for your clients. It’s not by calling, or texting, or emailing your leads in hopes that they will hire you. Your time is better spent on making billable time and your cases better. That’s kind of like, how we went down this rabbit hole - that’s the gist of where we’re at now and why this system has come to evolve.
Elliot: Another thing I want to touch on - and I’ve talked about this - but, you know, it’s easy to get hung up on, “Let me get more leads and more leads and more leads”, but are you 100% certain that you are squeezing everything out of the leads that you’re getting, and that’s what his system does. I’ve titled this “How To Double Your Law Firm’s Caseload Without Spending More On Marketing”. Obviously, we are a marketing company, but I know that 9 times out of 10 you’re leaving money on the table because a lead hasn’t been followed up with. Furthermore, what this system does - we know because we have a few of our clients on it - is it will help you track your caseload, your pipeline, help you see where people are at in different stages, and really help you optimize your sales process so you can get a lot more from what you’re already doing, without spending more money. That’s what this system has done for a few of our clients, which is why I reached out to Chris and he was nice enough to jump on.
So, I just have a couple of questions, just so people can get an idea of what it is. What was the main problem that you were having in your law firm that led you down this path - the main problem?
Chris: So there’s really two problems that arise. When you open up a new firm, you either have a handful of clients or a small number of clients, and then the first stage is getting more clients. You try to find someone to get you those clients - that would be like someone coming to you [Empirical360] to generate PPC leads or to generate Facebook ad leads, or whatever it is, right. When you’re a solo, you have all the time in the world to follow up with these people, right - you’re not bogged down in court, you’re not bogged down doing case research, so it’s easy to follow up with these people. There comes a point, this tipping point, where a lead comes in and you’re in court, or a lead comes in and you’re with a client, and it becomes a very sticky situation. By the time you get to this lead, they’ve already hired another attorney, or are shopping around, and that’s where you start leaving money on the table, because you don’t have the time to follow up quickly.
People think the solution to this is hiring a paralegal or admin to follow up for them, but I’m very adamant about the personal touch. If the first person to contact the lead happens to be the attorney, the very person who could actually be handling the case, you put yourself in a position above and beyond everybody else who’s reaching out to that lead. Most people get a call center, or an admin, or a paralegal, and then they say “Let me schedule you”, right, but if you’re actually the first person who is, for example, sending out a text message, or an email, in an automated way, and it says it’s coming from an attorney saying “Let’s talk, let me see how I can help you,” it literally speaks volumes. So it gets to this tipping point and it gets really really busy, and that’s where we shine.
The problem was this - we got to that point, and we had no time to follow up with those leads, and we were literally just wasting time and money, because we were spending money on marketing that we couldn’t capitalize on. I just got tired of wasting money. Literally, at the end of the day, I was just tired of wasting money on marketing agencies that said they were going to deliver something - and they did deliver something - but, 8 times out of 10, it’s not the marketing agency; it’s the fact that the attorneys to busy to be able to follow up with the lead. If you can just fix that, you can easily double your caseload with no change in your marketing spend. That’s exactly what we experienced in our own law firm. I automated this entire thing. I’ve tried other products out there in the world in the market, but I automated this thing, and our appointments skyrocketed, our cases that we closed skyrocketed.
Another added benefit to this is that not only are you saving time on having to do all this follow up and wishing the cases are coming in, but you get to spend that time doing things that actually matter. Attorneys go to law school to help other people through their legal situations, right - that’s what we’re here for. We’re not here to follow up with leads. That was our struggle. It was an uphill battle - it would go up, then go down, then go up again. Over the course of the last four years, I’ve narrowed it down, I’ve finalized it, and this is where you can maximize the amount of money you’re spending on marketing. If you’re spending $2,000 on marketing, and you’re generating 50 leads, or 20 leads, and you’re closing, let’s say, 5 of those leads - how would you like to spend the same amount of money and make it 10 cases a month that you close? Nothing’s changing besides literally just following up with the leads - that’s it.
Elliot: I know, it’s amazing. And the other thing too, what’s nice about it, is because it’s automated, it’s going to do it in a consistent manner. If you get busy one day, and you forget to send your 10 emails, or your 20 follow up emails, your whole system has fallen apart - your reliability and your percentages all go out the window, but this is doing it for you. It’s so powerful.
So, what other systems are out there as far as like CRMs or follow up systems that are comparable, and in what ways did they not measure up that led you down this path?
Chris: Yeah, so, there is a handful of them that are out on the market. I’m not going to talk down about any of them, they all have great benefits. Specifically, there are three big players. There’s Clio Grow - everyone knows that they used to be owned by Lexicata - and then there’s Lawmatics, that’s another one, and then there’s Lead Docket, is another one. Those are the three big players. There’s one called Captorra, that Mark Del Nolo sells as well, but my impression (and every other attorney I’ve talked to in the world) is that it’s not even worth the dime, so….I just wouldn’t count that one at all. And this is coming from me as an attorney! I’ve either a) looked into all of these systems or b) tried them personally. We started with Lexicata before they got bought by Clio and turned into Clio Grow.
What led me down this path was Clio Grow. It has an inbox, right, so when a lead comes in, you can stick that lead in the inbox - or a call center can stick a lead in that inbox - but nothing happens until the attorney opens the inbox and takes action on the lead. In my head, I’m just like, “Why can’t I automatically send them an email, or add them to a drip campaign, the second it comes in, it just happens?” That’s what led me down this path. Now, we have leads come in, and I don’t have to worry about that. If a lead comes in in the middle of the night, like literally within 5 seconds, they get a text message from us, or they get an email from us, or if it’s during business hours, they get a phone call from us, or we try to connect them with an attorney directly. I don’t have to think about somebody missing an email or us being in court. I know that all of our leads are getting messages, and even if they don’t respond, they are continually getting messages in a consistent, proven way to get them to book an appointment. That’s where the magic happens. When you get on the phone with someone, and you can determine you can help that person, that’s where you can sell them, and that’s when your personality is going to shine.
One extra positive of this is that since everything we do is personal - that is, it looks, feels like, and tastes like it comes from the attorney, this messaging - they’re already warmed up by the time that they get to the phone call with you. They’re already in that mindset of “This is somebody I want to talk to. This is an attorney, he knows what he’s talking about, he just wants to help me, let’s have a discussion”. And then you have a discussion, you say you can help them, and boom - you have a new client. You’ve already warmed them up, and you weren’t even involved besides the actual consultation itself. Clio Grow and Lawmatics and Lead Docket - you literally have to build the entire pipeline yourself. There’s no templates. Think about the hours involved in that. You’re trying to work with clients, you’re trying to follow up with leads, and then you’re going to try to build a system to figure out how to follow up with people? And not only build it, but then test it and see if it’s proven?
Elliot: I know that from experience - I had to build a pipeline in HubSpot for our agency, and I had to watch a bunch of courses on how to build a pipeline, and that took me hours...so I understand from that standpoint. And then the other thing too is that you have to string together systems that would do what yours is doing is time-consuming, clunky, and costly. Like you said, those other systems have their place, but they don’t measure up to the automation side and the follow up side of what you’re doing.
What are some of the results you’ve seen from people implementing this? You don’t have to give numbers or names, but what’s the typical outcome you experience?
Chris: Well, my blanket response to anybody when we get on a call about our system and marketing, and they ask, “How do you tee up compared to all the other organizations out there?” I say, “Well, let’s just put it this way: you can spend the same amount of money on marketing, and you can at least - like, literally, worst case scenario, you just sitting on your hands - you’re going to double the amount of cases you close. That right there should be a no-brainer, easy, in the door….if you’re signing 5 cases a month, you should be able to make it 10, with little to no extra effort or money. That’s what I like to tell people, that’s just like a baseline. But there’s also added benefits. When we bring on a new client, I try to take their old leads that they’re working right now and try to implement them in the system as well. I’ve had clients come in and launch with us right away, and they have decent lead volumes, and they’ll book 40 new client consultations in less than 7 days.
Elliot: From working their old leads?
Chris: Not just that, their current leads and some of their old leads. I won’t say it was all old or all new, but it was just a combination of both of them. But that’s 7 days. Can you imagine getting 40 new client consultations in 40 days? That’s crazy. My clients were just amazed. And you can get way more than that - one that client booked like 28 new clients above what he did before. Within 90 days, I think he closed like 97 new clients in 90 days. He’s more like a lower-tier offer, high volume thing, so they’re not like high litigation cases where you’re picking and choosing which ones you want to take, but it’s in the numbers, right. The record right now in our system is 65 new cases in 1 month that someone signed.
Elliot: That’s crazy! That’s a busy month right there, for sure. To give you guys [audience] some background, the reason I asked Chris here, is because one of our highest closing clients uses his system. When I started testing their forms, I started getting all of the automated follow ups and text messages, and I thought, “Wow - this is one of the few people who is aggressively following up with me, and I see the power of that”. He’s literally one of our highest closing clients, which is why I reached out to Chris and he was nice enough to come do this.
As far as other results, are there other things you have to add to that? I mean, that’s more than enough, honestly.
Chris: When I went through and put this together, I always thought “What are the most beneficial things that we can do for law firms to drive success for them and get them exponential growth?” Follow up, right, that’s it - that’s our core feature - but there are other things that become a very powerful playing card for a law firm. One of them is communication. When we first started this, this used to be just a follow up mechanism, but now it has spilled over into practice management. Now, this platform has become a communication platform for our clients. So instead of our clients calling us, they text message us, and we just text message them right back in LawHustle. We’ll answer their questions, remind them of their client appointments, their depositions, etc….it’s become not only an intake management system to get follow up with leads, but it’s become a communication platform for our practice management side in itself. Another good thing about this is, okay, what do you do after the case when you need to close out the case, right - you get reviews! That’s another thing that amplifies success for law firms, right?
Chris: We take care of all of that too. You can send out reviews as you close cases, you can send out reviews from your mobile device literally with the click of a button, if a deposition happens to go good you can send it right there for them to give you a review…
Elliot: I want to double down on that right there - just to give you guys an idea, review platforms are pretty pricey. If you’re familiar with the new Google LSAs, or Google Screens, one of the factors that they use to place you at the top of the page is your Google reviews. So not only if you’re closing way higher, but if you’re getting reviews, it is paying dividends in a huge, huge way. I didn’t realize it did that, but that is another really big benefit. Honestly, if you paid for that platform separately, those can go for $200-300 a month, some of those review platforms are even $500-600 a month - just for reviews, that’s all they do, and you do most of the heavy lifting - it’s not even automated!
Did you have anything prepared, as far as do you have any screenshots or want to show us a demo of what it looks like?
Chris: Yeah, so I just want to maybe run you through a quick demo - this is typically a demo we run through somebody when they book an instruction call with us, just to walk them through the system. It’s not going to go over all the features and all the bells and all the whistles. I just want to go over that core component. Most attorneys just care about that core component, which is “How can you free up my time and make my life easier so I can get more clients?” That’s the most important thing! So, let me go ahead and share my screen; I’ll talk through the process of the pipeline and how we structure everything and how we manage everything so that way you get an idea of what it’s like.
At this point in the webinar, Chris began sharing his screen and walking the webinar audience through a live demo of the LawHustle software. To view the original demo, click here (picks up at about 17:25). To learn more about LawHustle, visit their website. To discuss PPC lead generation with Empirical360, give us a call.
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